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Skating on the outside edge
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Thread: Skating on the outside edge

  1. #1
    My horse knows his own way home Snow Sport Instructor SMJ's Avatar
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    Skating on the outside edge

    I have taken up ice skating this summer, never really learned how to skate before. I've taken lessons and practiced every week, so I've been out 2 times a week for the last 5 weeks.

    What I'm learning applies to both skating on ice skates and skating on skis - this is my thinking anyway, and I'm looking for feedback. (I could just put the microphone in front of the speaker for that I guess.)

    What is working for me is putting the gliding skate (ski) down at first slightly tipped to the outside edge, rolling it to the center for glide, and then rolling to the inside edge to begin the process off pushing off on that skate.

    The other skate then comes down slightly on it's outside edge as I bring the pushing skate back in close to the new gliding skate.

    Besides skating on skis, which I have been taught at a high level involves starting on the outside edge, this seems also to relate to dynamic parallel skiing. Do you agree? If so, how?

    Certainly it's needed in one-foot skiing and seems to me to be involved in a transition from turn to turn.
    I need to be a conqueror, a liberator of my potential, kept prisoner all these years.

  2. #2
    Looking for a house Snow Sport Instructor
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    The diverging step turn of yore was begun on the outside edge of what's to become the outside ski of the turn. As the weight transfer occurred, the new outside ski was rolled onto the flat and then onto the new inside edge. Skating in the manner you describe was one of the exercises.

  3. #3
    Moderator Snow Sport InstructorSkier Village Coach LiquidFeet's Avatar
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    Oh, maybe four years ago there was a print out in the locker room at my mountain that described Level III skating as landing on the outside edge, rolling to the inside edge, and propelling off it. I couldn't at that point skate even the normal way. My skis slipped away. One of our Level IIIs watched me trying simply to skate on the flats outside the lodge, paddling away with my skis sliding out to the sides. As he walked by me he said (ever so helpfully) I don't know how you're ever going to skate if you don't flex those boot cuffs. And walked off.

    So ... two years later I was flexing the boot cuffs and landing on the outside edge, rolling to the inside edge and propelling off it. How could something so simple take so long to learn? But it did. I've had subsequent Level IIIs tell me I skate very well, and others tell me I need to tone it down. Go figure.

    It sounds like your ice skating is going to get you there very fast. Wish I'd thought of that.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SMJ View Post
    What is working for me is putting the gliding skate (ski) down at first slightly tipped to the outside edge, rolling it to the center for glide, and then rolling to the inside edge to begin the process off pushing off on that skate.

    The other skate then comes down slightly on it's outside edge as I bring the pushing skate back in close to the new gliding skate.

    Besides skating on skis, which I have been taught at a high level involves starting on the outside edge, this seems also to relate to dynamic parallel skiing. Do you agree? If so, how?
    This also applies to inline.

    Here is an inliner doing ice skater moves (setting down on outside edge and using hip extension to shift to the inside edge):



    This inliner^ is still learning.

    So is this one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshoSr1qF9w

    Advanced inline takes this entire principle even further and extends the set down leg (still on its outside edge!) medially (so right foot would actually extend to the *left* of the chin). Then the leg is withdrawn, crosses back under the chin and goes on the inside edge like you describe.

    Here is an old Chad Hedrick video showing it all in slow motion:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3gF1qWq6nI


    Here is an old Salomon Speed video with Pascal Briand even more analytical.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmFZxNEuJH8

    Unfortunately, when I bring all this back to skiing, it means I have an annoying habit of using muscle power to lift my hip uphill at transitions. Very bad.

    This tendency means I usually have to quit using ILE for at least a week of skiing days and use OLR for everything. AFAICT, OLR has no muscle analog in skating.
    Last edited by comprex; July 27th, 2013 at 09:00 PM.

  5. #5
    My horse knows his own way home Snow Sport Instructor SMJ's Avatar
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    Great stuff comprex! Interesting, in skating the next move is to master the crossover. It's very similar except in those inline vids you crossover behind, in skating you crossover in front.

    By the way I emailed Lars and he said to say hi to everyone. He'd doing well, just has been too busy to visit the forum.
    I need to be a conqueror, a liberator of my potential, kept prisoner all these years.

  6. #6
    Home Sweet Home Ski Patrol daveski7's Avatar
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    Crossovers are done in front always. The back skate pushes inward and the front skate crosses over.
    When you are winning, don't let up. When you are losing, don't give up.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SMJ View Post
    Great stuff comprex! Interesting, in skating the next move is to master the crossover.
    Strictly speaking, the next move is to master the forward fall ("lunge") where one sets down a leg that is much much shorter than the push off leg.

    Ignore the medial push in the Pascal Briand video. Just compare how much shorter his set down leg is compared to his push-off leg. This short leg/long leg differential is absolutely essential to low-effort skating, and I very much fear that the skater in the first video doesn't quite understand this.

    This relates to LF's stiff boot cuff story. Notice that in a really stiff ski boot one can set down a short leg, but one can't balance on top of it. One is perforce somewhat behind it. In stiff ski boots, one is therefore restricted to motion like the skater in the first video link.
    Last edited by comprex; July 28th, 2013 at 08:01 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by daveski7 View Post
    Crossovers are done in front always. The back skate pushes inward and the front skate crosses over.
    Yup, both inline and ice. I think SMJ is using 'crossover' in the skiing sense above, tho, to mean CoM side-to-side travel above the gliding support leg.
    Last edited by comprex; July 28th, 2013 at 07:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
    So ... two years later I was flexing the boot cuffs and landing on the outside edge, rolling to the inside edge and propelling off it. How could something so simple take so long to learn? But it did. I've had subsequent Level IIIs tell me I skate very well, and others tell me I need to tone it down. Go figure.
    I've a task for you. Next time you're skating, try steering the "push off" foot towards the big toe side, so that the ski tip does not diverge outwards wider than the heel. This will really tax your ankle ROM, but fun things happen at the hip.

  10. #10
    My horse knows his own way home Snow Sport Instructor SMJ's Avatar
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    Nope, I was using it in the skating sense.
    I need to be a conqueror, a liberator of my potential, kept prisoner all these years.

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