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Thread: Skating on the outside edge

  1. #11
    Moderator Snow Sport InstructorSkier Village Coach LiquidFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comprex View Post
    I've a task for you. Next time you're skating, try steering the "push off" foot towards the big toe side, so that the ski tip does not diverge outwards wider than the heel. This will really tax your ankle ROM, but fun things happen at the hip.
    Comprex, I'm adding this to my notes of what to try new next season. Thanks. Two questions:

    1. This is skating. Steering means, in my worldview, rotating a disengaged ski around on top of the snow. Do you mean rotate the tip of the push-off ski inwards, after it touches the snow, with the pivot point under the arch? Surely that is not what you mean by "steering the push-off foot towards the big toe side"...

    2. Currently when doing skating of the sort I described, I set the push-off foot down under my hips way over on the other side (left foot to under right side of body) so that it touches down on its LTE. Then I roll it onto its BTE as my hips cross over it. Then the push-off occurs from the BTE. That's what I do now.
    *** What "fun things" will I notice at the hip, should I manage to do this new steering thing with the push-off foot? No harm in enlightening me....
    Last edited by LiquidFeet; July 28th, 2013 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
    Comprex, I'm adding this to my notes of what to try new next season. Thanks. Two questions:

    1. This is skating. Steering means, in my worldview, rotating a disengaged ski around on top of the snow. Do you mean rotate the tip of the push-off ski inwards, after it touches the snow, with the pivot point under the arch? Surely that is not what you mean by "steering the push-off foot towards the big toe side"...
    That is exactly what I mean. Disengage the tip from the snow just enough so this is possible. Pressure down through the arch with a heelside bias, not a toeside bias.

    2. Currently when doing skating of the sort I described, I set the push-off foot down under my hips way over on the other side (left foot to under right side of body) so that it touches down on its LTE.
    That's the lazy way to do it (I'm sometimes guilty of that myself). The other way to do it is to set the set-down foot -wide- on its own proper side (left foot to left side of the body) and to make sure that leg's knee is -wider- than the foot. This is more taxing of the large balancing muscles in your back, but its a heapload faster.

    Then I roll it onto its BTE as my hips cross over it. Then the push-off occurs from the BTE. That's what I do now.
    yup, yup all good.

    *** What "fun things" will I notice at the hip, should I manage to do this new steering thing with the push-off foot? No harm in enlightening me....
    For one thing, you will feel extremely 'stacked' and you will not be able to leave that leg to its own devices. For another you start noticing how far behind that leg gets left and you will start disengaging it from the ground sooner (which will slow you down less).

    After you get used to this, you will catch yourself wanting to flick that leg /forward/ from the hip, so that the stroke looks like a question mark ? laid on its side.

  3. #13
    Moderator Snow Sport InstructorSkier Village Coach LiquidFeet's Avatar
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    Comprex, is this a nordic racing type of skate technique?

  4. #14
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Yep, skating to outside edge is the ticket, SMJ. You can go to flat also, but more power comes from going to LTE. Check out my revolving video of skating from my glossary entry for skating on my website: http://www.yourskicoach.com/glossary...y/Skating.html
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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
    Comprex, is this a nordic racing type of skate technique?
    NO. Nordic racers push out with toe-side bias and plantar flex like crazy using the calf muscles /because/ they have a free heel and the ski can track straight instead of diverging to a V. So do klop ice skaters.

    What I talk about above is something specific to fixed heels. In the inline world, US,Canadian and Colombian skaters do it a lot more than Dutch & French & Korean skaters because it allows for tighter pack skating without kicking the guy behind you in the shin.

  6. #16
    Moderator Snow Sport InstructorSkier Village Coach LiquidFeet's Avatar
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    Comprex, were you describing an inline skate technique, or a ski skating technique?
    It sounds so unfamiliar to me and I'm just wondering....

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
    Comprex, were you describing an inline skate technique, or a ski skating technique?
    It sounds so unfamiliar to me and I'm just wondering....
    It's both. The muscle action is almost identical; the timing is just a little bit slower on skis - it's just a lot easier to separate out the elements with inlines because you're not constantly fighting the limits of alpine boot flexion.

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    Last edited by comprex; July 30th, 2013 at 09:31 AM.

  8. #18
    The pic shows a pretty aggressive LTE skate move along with the problem at the BTE of the long leg.

    SMJ, in downhill skiing a move like above would be listed under 'cramponage' in BB's encyclopedia.

  9. #19
    What about SKATING as part of a progression leading up to ONE-LEG skiing?

    I ask the question after thinking about what has been written in this Skating thread and, more recently, after directing my thinking and daydreaming toward getting my brain into ‘instructor’ mode for the next few months. To that end I have been paying more attention to skiers, and to any instructors who may be out at the moment, and it has occurred to me that I see almost no skating. Why is that?

    The only skating I see is in race team development groups. Why is that? The general public, whether on their own or in lessons, rarely does it.

    Also, in view of other threads where skiers have express an interest in one-leg skiing, and also expressed the difficulty and frustration of doing so on the weak side of the foot, the little toe side, it occurs to me that mastering skating would build balance and confidence on the weak side of the foot. To be clear about what I am referring to, the weak side is the outside edge of the inside ski, and it was on this edge that Ms Schiffrin recovered last year, thankfully while the cameras were rolling. That move, so well publicized now, and identified as the White Pass or Norwegian drill, is the inspiration of my personal New Season Resolutions posted on that thread. Others share the same goal. Several contributors to this forum have offered useful suggestions on how to work up to turning (recovering) on the new inside ski, and the suggestions I have tried are very good, but why has no one suggested skating as a fundamental starting point?

    I have been experimenting on the flats to see how long I can balance on the glide ski before rolling onto the inside edge (big toe edge) to pushoff for a new glide on the other ski, and it seems to me that the glide ski (assuming you come down on the little toe side) is analogous to the inside ski in a White Pass/Norwegian turn. Sort of like skating into a turn? If so, why not make extensive use of skating practice to lead up to the White Pass/Norwegian turn on one leg? Are there drawbacks to doing so?
    cj

  10. #20
    My horse knows his own way home Snow Sport Instructor SMJ's Avatar
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    Skating is a key and even "master" skill. In PSIA certifications it's very important. My wife passed her Level 2 teaching exam in large part due to her emphasis on skating in one of her teaching segments.

    I think the reason you see race coaches focus on it and not Instructors, is that they have the time and the long term coaching with their students to teach fundamentals. Heck to teach much of anything at all. Ski lessons are about quick fixes, making the student feel like they learned something, and not ever seeing them again. If we spent too much time on skills based training they would feel like they didn't learn anything.

    Race coaches on the other hand actually get to develop skills!
    I need to be a conqueror, a liberator of my potential, kept prisoner all these years.

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