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Divergence discussion - Page 2
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Thread: Divergence discussion

  1. #11
    Looking for a house mtguide1's Avatar
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    Loved this thread. Divergent skiing used to be a targeted skill back in the Up, Touch, Turn days. Glad to see the A-frame is making a comeback )))
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  2. #12
    Looking for an apartment Snow Sport Instructor
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    This thread reminded me of this article I read a couple years ago and is still online -- http://www.youcanski.com/en/coaching/inside_ski.htm

    I don't confess to know much about racing but optimum racing technique. But perhaps what racers do in certain situations in certain turns is a bit different than free skiing performance parallel turns. I'm thinking in racing going from slightly converging to slightly diverging may be desirable. But I'm not sure that would be the goal in "PSIA" style skiing. Or at least, divergence could indicate a defect.

    I've been doing some in-house level III prep clinics (even though I'm not ready to take an LIII exam I've been told I should be working toward it.) One thing we covered is staying with the skis. If you move inside too quick, which a lot of people in the level 7-8 level (PSIA LII) do on modern carving skis, you have to do one of two things to correct. You can pivot the skis to quickly tighten the turn to catch up with the body, or you can diverge your inside ski. That type of divergence is going to be a determent to performance. You really want that inside ski parallel and at the same edge able and you want to bend it to get the proper radius. So how do you bend the inside ski to match the radius of the outside ski when the inside ski when the outside ski as more force on it? You have to get on the front of the ski with ball of the foot and shin pressure. Simple mechanics would tell you that you wouldn't be bending the whole ski but you'd be bending the tip.

    -l2t (feeling like I known just enough to be dangerous.)

  3. #13
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
    This thread reminded me of this article I read a couple years ago and is still online -- http://www.youcanski.com/en/coaching/inside_ski.htm

    I don't confess to know much about racing but optimum racing technique. But perhaps what racers do in certain situations in certain turns is a bit different than free skiing performance parallel turns. I'm thinking in racing going from slightly converging to slightly diverging may be desirable. But I'm not sure that would be the goal in "PSIA" style skiing. Or at least, divergence could indicate a defect.

    I've been doing some in-house level III prep clinics (even though I'm not ready to take an LIII exam I've been told I should be working toward it.) One thing we covered is staying with the skis. If you move inside too quick, which a lot of people in the level 7-8 level (PSIA LII) do on modern carving skis, you have to do one of two things to correct. You can pivot the skis to quickly tighten the turn to catch up with the body, or you can diverge your inside ski. That type of divergence is going to be a determent to performance. You really want that inside ski parallel and at the same edge able and you want to bend it to get the proper radius. So how do you bend the inside ski to match the radius of the outside ski when the inside ski when the outside ski as more force on it? You have to get on the front of the ski with ball of the foot and shin pressure. Simple mechanics would tell you that you wouldn't be bending the whole ski but you'd be bending the tip.

    -l2t (feeling like I known just enough to be dangerous.)
    L2T, ponder on this one for a bit, and tell me what you think.


    The bigger edge angle you employ during a turn, the further the feet have to be apart on the snow to provide room to tip the legs. In a series of high edge angle turns like that, if you want to keep your skis parallel all the time, you have two choices.

    1) You can constantly maintain that wide foot separation, and go through your transitions with an exaggeratedly wide stance, or
    2) You can narrow them for the transitions, and then widen them again during each turn.

    If your choice is #2, how do you make that widening and narrowing happen while keeping your skis always parallel?
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  4. #14
    Looking for an apartment Snow Sport Instructor
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    Rick, I think I agree with you on all of that. Looking at the tracks in that article, not only is there change in ski pressure from side to side by the shape of the arc is such that ther has to be a bit of divergence/convergence going on. I think the gist is, modern racing turns do not look like railroad track turns.

    -l2t

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Rick View Post
    L2T, ponder on this one for a bit, and tell me what you think.


    The bigger edge angle you employ during a turn, the further the feet have to be apart on the snow to provide room to tip the legs. In a series of high edge angle turns like that, if you want to keep your skis parallel all the time, you have two choices.

    1) You can constantly maintain that wide foot separation, and go through your transitions with an exaggeratedly wide stance, or
    2) You can narrow them for the transitions, and then widen them again during each turn.

    If your choice is #2, how do you make that widening and narrowing happen while keeping your skis always parallel?

  5. #15
    Moderator Snow Sport InstructorSkier Village Coach LiquidFeet's Avatar
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    I'm curious.
    Why would you want to narrow your stance between high edge angle turns?
    Isn't that just extra pointless movement?

  6. #16
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
    I'm curious.
    Why would you want to narrow your stance between high edge angle turns?
    Isn't that just extra pointless movement?
    LF, imagine what Bode's stance would look like if he went through the coming transition maintaining this foot separation.



    Because the inside ski will generally be on a slightly lower edge angle, and will be bearing less weight, converging is something that happens rather naturally/automatically, it involves no intentional movements. Keeping it from happening is what would require intention. The move that actually requires the more deliberate movement is found in the stance widening again to allow for the development of a big edge angle in the coming turn following the transition. That was what I was prodding discussion about.

    Yes, you could just hold the prior turn separation through the current transition, but it would require effort to maintain through the bottom half of the turn, then would require a contorted stance to continue to maintain it through the transition. And that contortion would affect the ability to move fore for the initiation of the new turn, something racers strive to do, and is a pretty useful thing for recreational skier to do too.
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  7. #17
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
    I think the gist is, modern racing turns do not look like railroad track turns.

    -l2t
    Exactimondo!

    Rail turns is carving 101
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