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Thread: Starting a beginner in parallel or starting in wedge?

  1. #21
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    cjc, that's an excellent post, thanks for taking the time to compose it. I'm sure MTG will find it valuable.
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  2. #22
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjc View Post
    – the skier must commit more to moving the body downhill to start a turn. That move is fear-laden and some never overcome the fear of moving over to the other side of their skis, momentarily out of balance, hoping that their new outside ski will catch them.
    Like this a lot. So true

    Pivots are a popular thing people use to avoid that scary sensation.
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  3. #23
    My horse knows his own way home Little Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjc View Post
    Can this thread be cross-referenced to other sections of this forum, perhaps to the “Village Ski and Ride School” section? This thread involves the same period of time in a new skier’s life as the question I posed here last season, How to Teach Initiation (to beginners) found in the Ask The Coach section of this forum. I hope this reply is helpful to you, Mtn Guide, and will appreciate any critique from readers.
    CJ (Madison)
    This thread

    http://www.skiervillage.com/showthre...urn-initiation

  4. #24
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Interested in when you start encouraging people to ski in and out of counter. In other words, femurs turning in hip sockets. Do you start them with that, or square first and skiing into counter comes later?
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  5. #25
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtguide1 View Post
    My arms represent 20% of my mass.
    Been eating your spinach, aye MTG?

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  6. #26
    Looking for a house mtguide1's Avatar
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    Arrrgggg, matey! I have always been top heavy. Chicken legged. Standard PSIA hand position, out front, is something I am not sure I care for. In many skiers I see it push their hips aft slightly. In my own explorations with carving a couple of years ago, I had a tendency to be to low in my stance, too much flex in knees and hips. In looking at the racing footage here in the Village, I didn't see any racers holding there hands way out front so I went back to my arms more out to the sides and it had an immediate, positive effect.

    I am trying to get beginners into a stance that allows them to access more of the natural, instinctual, balancing movements they bring to the slope with them. That means more upright and hands more to the side. When you see some in street shoes walking along the edge of a curb for example they don't carry their hands out front. Havin them out to the side more also helps people be more aware of what is going on with shoulder angles and rotation. Always a problem with never-evers thru low intermediate.
    Last edited by mtguide1; November 28th, 2014 at 10:36 AM. Reason: add a thought
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  7. #27
    Looking for a house mtguide1's Avatar
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    The mantra is to always be in motion, always turning. In free skiing I absolutely agree with that for a lot of reasons. Practically speaking, even a true expert who is trying to learn something new or modify something, the traverse is a time to reflect on the new sensation, gather thoughts and prepare to try it going the other way. The traverse has a way of sort of freezing people in a "position" and it is hard to initiate a new turn from there. BUT, traversing is a very important tactic in all mountain skiing and absolutely essential on crowded groomers so knowing when to traverse and how to initiate from a long traverse is an important skill.
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  8. #28
    Looking for a house mtguide1's Avatar
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    Excellent! Thanks for the outline of your program! My main objection is not the wedge itself but the way it is taught and hence, my objection to the Turck Driver drill, or any other method that places emphasis at initiation on transferring weight (pressure) to the outside ski. It serves to shorten the inside leg and lengthen the outside. It ingrains an off center move. Transfer the BoS while holding on to the old edge.

    I like your focus on lower body movement. I also like that the stem and upper body rotation is taught as an advanced technique, as it should be.

    The outside weight transfer method of producing a turn is something that I see a lot of instructors doing and it must be because the school allows it. I see it where I teach and I see the results of it in skiers here from other venues and it is a constant subject in just about every online forum I participate in.
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  9. #29
    I have my own seat in the pub Skier Village Coach Coach Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtguide1 View Post
    Arrrgggg, matey! I have always been top heavy. Chicken legged. Standard PSIA hand position, out front, is something I am not sure I care for. In many skiers I see it push their hips aft slightly. In my own explorations with carving a couple of years ago, I had a tendency to be to low in my stance, too much flex in knees and hips. In looking at the racing footage here in the Village, I didn't see any racers holding there hands way out front so I went back to my arms more out to the sides and it had an immediate, positive effect.

    I am trying to get beginners into a stance that allows them to access more of the natural, instinctual, balancing movements they bring to the slope with them. That means more upright and hands more to the side. When you see some in street shoes walking along the edge of a curb for example they don't carry their hands out front. Havin them out to the side more also helps people be more aware of what is going on with shoulder angles and rotation. Always a problem with never-evers thru low intermediate.
    Completely agree with you! Best place to put the hands, if the goal is to move the hips forward, is behind the back.

    And that's definitely the stance you want for your beginners. The legs work best when they're long and tall. Easiest way to get students forward on their skis; forget the hand location business. First thing to tell them is to just stand up.
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  10. #30
    Still unpacking boxes Skier Village Coach TDK's Avatar
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    Didnt read through the whole thread but some of it. Great stuff. I was thinking of the original demo explained. The truck driver wedge drill or whatever it was called. What gripes me with the drill is that its completely unnessesary to teach in such way. Very mechanical. And there is one big major flaw that I think kind of ruins all the good intent. The good intent is offcourse to pressure the outside ski and angulate at the hips. What I dont understand is why the outside arm should be pushed forwad and the inside pulled back. This is opposite of what we want to do because it causes rotation in our upper body. We want to do the opposite. We want to turn our upper bodies towards the outside of the turn. Also known as counter or upper body counter. All movements should be smooth, gradual and proggressive.

    Anyway, IMO theres a cloud of confusion regarding how to turn parallell. Many dont understand the consept of up-unweighting and whats the difference between stand alone turns out of a traverse and linked turns. Or believe bump and powder skiing requires some special technique or gear. Also, brushed turns and carved edge locked turns need to be separated from each other in the sence that a carved turn only needs tipping of the skis at initiation while a brushed turn needs a combination of unweighting, tipping and turning of the skis. Both have their challanges.

    Here are a couple of demos I did that might be fun to watch. This first one must be over 10y old while I was still skiing on Head. Its been highly debated over at other forums back when it came out but I still think its cuts donw to the bare essensials pretty well.


    This one is newer from 2012. It gives you one stem and two parallell turn initiation options leaving out the wedge turn.
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