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Thread: How do you initiate a basic parallel turn?

  1. #11
    I have my own seat in the pub Bushido Princess's Avatar
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    To steer I put pressure on my feet and make them turn and that turns the skis. I am sure all parts of the legs are involved but I don't know the specific dynamics.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TDK View Post
    How do you initiate a parallel turn?
    The same way you initiate a wedge turn! Release the edge of the downhill – outside ski, and flatten it as it becomes the new inside ski.

    If the skier is attempting what can be called a “parallel” turn in our program, the key characteristic of that kind of turn is simultaneous release of both edges. This response defines “basic” parallel as the simultaneous edge release into which you are gradually advancing your wedge Christy turners at low to moderate speeds.

    The browbeater-in-chief in our little group makes us think like this:

    Question: What does initiate mean? Answer: Initiate means start.

    Q: What do you do to start a turn? A: Finish the last turn.

    Q: How do you finish a turn? A: Do something that makes you start to leave the arc you are making in this turn.

    Q: What do you do to leave the arc of your existing turn? A: Start releasing the edges, which could also be described as, start flattening the skis.

    Q: How do you start the edge release/flattening? A: Start to extend the inside leg.

    Called ILE in this forum. For intermediate skiers approaching their first basic parallel initiations, both legs extend, but the inside leg extends more than the outside leg. As a result you get a slight “up” movement plus the long leg – short leg rhythm through the turns. At the top of the “up” the skis are flat and can be pivoted/steered easily at that point, if desired. The body will continue across the skis until the other edges engage simultaneously.
    cj

  3. #13
    Still unpacking boxes Skier Village Coach TDK's Avatar
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    cjc - you dont always link turns. In other words, you dont always start a turn at the end of annother. Also, for me the ILE consept limits itself pretty much to carved turns. Only when carving we have a clear large destinction between extended and flexed.
    Carving - let the skis turn you, not you turning your skis

  4. #14
    Sorry, I do not understand. Nothing new there!, as a general rule. But, the question was, How to initiate a basic parallel, and I do not understand how your reply to my post has a connection to the question of how to initiate. I agree that all turns do not transition into another turn, and I agree that ILE is the “beginner” kind of parallel with attendant limitations, but that was not the question. Can you enlighten us on what was on your mind when you made the post?

    My attempt at enlightenment located the following threads.
    On July 14th, 2011, Coach Rick started a thread called Transitions; let me count the ways.
    On July 17th, 2011, Coach Rick started a thread called Initiation.
    On October 24th, 2011, Bushido Princess started a thread called OLR and ILE discussion.
    On June 1st, 2012, Coach Rick started a thread called Cross Through, Cross Under, Retraction

    These threads are located in the Archives of the Village Ski and Ride School.

    For readers as unsure as I am of what the purpose of this new thread is in 2015 the archived threads will be useful. They provide a fairly thorough discussion of the main ways to initiate turns in the context of what instructors try to teach students who want to progress from the basic slow-speed Inside Leg Extension (ILE) that is used to get a wedge turner into basic parallel, to the advanced fast-speed retraction movements of rapid short radius turns.

    TDK, can you describe what kind of information and conversation you are looking for in the current thread that is not satisfactorily discussed in the 2011-12 threads? Is there incorrect or incomplete discussion in the 2011-12 threads?

    CR, others, can you offer guidance on this matter?
    Thanks. cj

  5. #15
    Still unpacking boxes Skier Village Coach TDK's Avatar
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    cjc - Im looking for a conversation hoovering arround the different techniques and movements used to initiate a basic parallel turn.

    Rick listed the following types of parallel turns in his posting early on in this thread: Carved Arc to Arc, Carved Pivot, Steered Clean Entry, Steered Pivot

    I think it would be great to discuss HOW you initiate these different turn types and there must be several ways to initiate turns belonging in each category. Im particulary interested in the movements used. If I know the movements and understand the consept I can if I doubt prove it right by taping it on video. Thats the way the myth you could initiate a wedge turn by simply releasing the old downhill ski from its inside edge to start a new turn was busted.

    T
    Carving - let the skis turn you, not you turning your skis

  6. #16
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    What????? You cannot initiate a wedged turn by flattening one of the skis???? Where, when was that a "myth" and how was it "busted"?????


    Oh, wait, you said "downhill". It's true you must equalize the weight on the wedged skis to allow them to begin turning to the fall line. Once in the fall line, flattening one ski will turn the wedge toward that direction. You teach wedged turns from traversed positions?

  7. #17
    Still unpacking boxes Skier Village Coach TDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
    What????? You cannot initiate a wedged turn by flattening one of the skis???? Where, when was that a "myth" and how was it "busted"?????


    Oh, wait, you said "downhill". It's true you must equalize the weight on the wedged skis to allow them to begin turning to the fall line. Once in the fall line, flattening one ski will turn the wedge toward that direction. You teach wedged turns from traversed positions?
    Yeah. This has been a big argument between the two camps: active weight transfer / passive weight transfer. Oldschool vs newschool. It was busted by trying it out on the hill. Anybody can do that. I also taped it on video. Its exactly as you say. First you need to equalize pressure on both skis and then you release one edge to turn in that direction. Except even then you can easily end up with the edged ski locking into running along its edge preventing a turn. Usually just a little bit of "active weight transfer" out over the new outside ski will give you huge bang for buck. No we dont teach wedge turning out of a traverse but at some point that comes into play. During a Private lesson way within half an hour. Depending on the skill level of the student.

    In the traditional Austrian way of teaching the wedge turn you extend up and release your edges at the end of a turn. This move draws you into the fall line and once there you lean out over your new outside ski to pressure it and cause the turn. I dont quite see the use for the extension part but it serves annother purpose: to ingrain the up-down movement pattern you need to up-unweight your parallel turn. This is something I dont teach because when you carve this movement pattern is not required. Here skiing has IMO taken a step forward in the evolution. We still up-unweigth to initiate turns but we do not need such a big extension flexion movement.
    Carving - let the skis turn you, not you turning your skis

  8. #18
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    The purpose of the extension is the equalizing of the weight on the wedged skis, which gets the skier into the fall line.

  9. #19
    Still unpacking boxes Skier Village Coach TDK's Avatar
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    Yes, but IMO its unnecessary since I dont teach students to extend into transition and flex through out the turn. I kind of teach the opposite later on.
    Carving - let the skis turn you, not you turning your skis

  10. #20
    my feet slightly tip if I want to steer.

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